There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. Along with a new larger 630Wh battery option, plus updated hardware and software, Shimano certainly hasnt held back with its much-anticipated return fire on the highly competitive and fast-moving electric mountain bike market. Maybe in a next generation they can implement an optional solution analog to what we're already seeing f bicycle chains. I read a similar story around christmas on an other forum. Assistance Start Here you can tweak how quickly the motor responds within the first pedal stroke. Assistance Character This adjusts the motors support level, which is how easily the motor delivers its power based on your input. Uh oh, another one E-triggered. The MasterMind TCU head unit on the top tube is also as good as it gets, with a sharp and clear, but unobtrusive display that reduces clutter on the handlebars. However the motor operation itself is fabulous, smooth, powerful, feels natural when you ride, you can cover ground like crazy in this thing. The downside for Bosch is that its display options leave a lot to be desired. Those Merida ebikes ride quite good too. It's a powerful unit with a huge reach, but it has a little problem: it rattles when riding downhill or, simply put, there is no power on the pedals. 2b - If threadlock patch is present, move on to step 3. According to Shimano, the EP8 motor offers a 36% reduction in drag over the old E8000 motor, and we're inclined to believe that claim. I tried to find out the cause of this. is a broken record . Its a little different though, with Orbea detuning the motors power and assistance to improve efficiency so it can use a smaller and lighter 360Wh battery. The EM800 display features built-in Bluetooth and ANT+ wireless connectivity for pairing both your phone and a compatible GPS head unit, allowing you to display information such as battery life and remaining range. A downside of the 2.2 motor is that it is noticeably draggy above the 25km/h cutoff though something we experienced during back-to-back between the Levo and Canyon Spectral:ON. On top of that, Shimano also appears to be cool with brands building their bikes with non-Shimano batteries. The three EP8 bikes weve tested all have sub-440mm rear centre lengths, which is quite a bit shorter than the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+ with its much bulkier Yamaha motor, for example. Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. The issue, we've been told, is that the motor body is subject to cracking when the drive is employed as a stressed part of the bike's frame. From what I get from the article, what would actually bother me more is how it kicks in from a standstill or trackstand. 2c - If preload cap has no threadlock patch pre applied: If youre sprinting at speed, the Levo feels sticky and lazy in comparison to the drag-free EP8 motor. - Tuning options are simple and effective Were currently testing three bikes with Shimanos EP8 motor and one of those has just over 800km on the odometer. Quick everyone, it's another article about e-bikes grab the pitchforks! People know you're not running some old E8000 or E7000 motor. - Available on a wide-range of different e-MTBs, - Clacking noise can be annoying This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 39% battery remaining. At full charge in Trail mode it says range is 90km or so but I haven't put that to the test on more mellow trail days but am sure others have. In the higher settings, the motor will deliver maximum power without you having to pedal very hard at all. You can't call an e-bike rider lazy when they try to overtake you making this sound. - A little more overrun on technical climbs would be swell There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. That is not the case, but all cranks should be checked for proper tightness before riding, and initial installations procedures should be updated, reads TSB 156. Can someone make a bike with 50% - 100% assist? Durability and ease of maintenence is far more important than power in my world. Bikes sent in for testing are usually carefully prepared by brands to pick up any assembly issues, and then are checked before testing by in-house mechanics or the testers themselves. While I am at the age/account to have one, I couldn't imagine riding longer than my 630W battery lasted, i don't think i would be able to walk for a week. By their own standards of non-assist components, this motor is not worthy of the shimano name. We haven't really got an opinion about durability. As of April 2021, all of Commencals EP8-equipped bikes have been specced with Shimano cranks, but this change has taken some time to filter through to consumers because of the time it takes for fully built bikes to get to the shop floor. That rattling feeling comes from one way bearing. The reported cases of drive unit spindle breakages on our DU-EP800 drive units were combined with non-Shimano cranks. I swapped wheels but didn't realize I had to swap the magnet from the rotor bolts that was connected to the speed sensor in the software. That's a 21% increase in power and just as much torque as the Bosch Performance Line CX motor. When we make fun of others, its because we are not happy w ourselves. I think Shimano is taking these issues very seriously. Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! SHIMANO STEPS EP8 Left Switch Unit for Assist VIEW PRODUCT Cycle Computer SC-EM800 EP8 Cycle Computer VIEW PRODUCT SC-E5003 SHIMANO STEPS Cycle Computer with Assist Switch (SD300 port) VIEW PRODUCT Speed Sensor EW-SS302 Disc Brake Speed Sensor (SD300 type) VIEW PRODUCT EW-SS301 SHIMANO STEPS Disc Brake Speed Sensor for EW-SD300 VIEW PRODUCT Absolutely. Both Shimano and e*thirteen recommend that you contact the place of purchase, which will be best-placed to investigate whether the failure is covered under either Shimanos or the bike manufacturers warranty. Limiting the maximum torque is something youll notice more at low cadences in high-load applications rather than general trail riding. But yeah, different people. What a misstep by Shimano to join Bosch in its failure. Also the bikes will be heavy as f*ck with an 820Wh battery. They could have gone "yeah the rattling sucks but we hope you appreciate the motor nonetheless" but instead they composed this pure poetry. - Numerous battery options, both from Shimano & 3rd parties A dynamo and regenerative braking is the ONLY thing stopping from buying an e-bike? As it stands, you have to use the small button at the base of the display to manually scroll through additional pages just to see your cadence, estimated range and the time. I would have respected Shimano more if they owned it and were more forthright about working to resolve it. I like to see a dynamo recharging system when the bike starts to coast downhill. Wait, 23-27kms? Is this a review for ants? - Lightweight and small form factor The new EP8 motor is 10-percent smaller than the E8000, and thanks to that size reduction and a new magnesium case, it's 300 grams lighter. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. On the trail the tone of the clack is a little deeper than the EP8 drive unit, but the cause is the same. And we certainly wouldnt be upset if Shimano could quieten down the clacking noise. However, we couldnt get the display to pair with our Wahoo ELMNT Roam head unit. What makes me sad is seeing young people hop on the e bike train so that they can go on a longer ride or so that someone who is new to cycling can keep up with their friends who have been riding for years, all to perpetuate needless consumerism and a gross waste of resources. Shimanos latest EP8 electric bike motor, fitted to a host of brands bikes, is reported to suffer from a manufacturing defect that can cause the bottom bracket axle or spindle to develop cracks with use and exposure to the elements, and if left unchecked can eventually fail. Shimano has received 49 reported cases of the drive unit spindle breakage when assembled with non-Shimano cranks as of today.. What Type of Mountain Bike Should You Buy in 2023? Are we ignoring the fact that motor has been recalled/reworked by Shimano, and pushing all new bike deliveries by two months (at least)? Too hot to handle even. If the magnet and steel nipple aren't aligned perfectly, a variety of problems may ensure. I run the previous version steps e8000 and I think it's brilliant. But even then it is still quieter than my saddle bag bouncing around. This data covers comprehensive third party metallurgical analysis in addition to results from a rigorous test battery of corrosion testing combined with ISO Fatigue. Specializeds Mission Control app continues to be the market leader in terms of connectivity, tuning options and user-friendliness. Gear or similar. With the Spectral:ON for example, which has very short chainstays and a relatively slack seat tube angle that puts your weight further over the rear axle on steep climbs, it helped to dial down the Assistance Character (to 6/10), the Maximum Torque (to 78Nm) and the Assistance Start (to 4/5) to soften the bikes power and acceleration. Overall the tuning adjustments are quite noticeable, though wed always recommend only adjusting one parameter at a time to isolate its effect on the trail. Once again still want to know; is the BB replaceable on these units yet, or are they still landfill waiting to happen? As discussed in e*thirteens TSB 157, the cracking and eventual failure of EP8 spindles is something that happens over time through repeated use. The compact size and a magnesium casing helped cut 300 grams. Any rider who owns an ebike with an EP8 motor fitted with e*thirteen cranks currently has two options. @tomdesoals: Ah, thanks I get it. Yes, we understand how and why spindle breakage may occur when some non-Shimano cranks are used with our DU-EP800 drive unit. Improving performance on undulating terrain, Shimano has also increased the EP8s available torque at lower cadences. All e-Bike assist mode gets disabled during the downhill slopes. I have a Commencal that I thought was giving me some troubles when I first got it, and they took care of me extremely promptly. According to Shimano, design differences between Shimano and non-Shimano cranks cause the axle to crack and eventually fail. I suppose pedal assist allows you to tackle the more fun/steep/tech climbs but to be effective it needs to be subtle too. If speed and maximum power output is less of a concern though, switching into the factory Eco mode is a sure-fire way to get more ride time expect range to double from those figures above. But on the premise of further, faster, more fun, that range at full noise is not gonna outdo the range & fun I get outta my bowl of cereal and some old fashion pedal power. The brand was made aware of failures occurring when the EP8 motor is used with pedal cranks made by brands other than Shimano, including e*thirteens e*spec ebike-specific cranks. What is Shimanos take on e*thirteens metallurgic analysis findings? I mean, one of the most beautiful things about the bicycle is how efficient and capable it is of traveling long distances under our own power. Shimanos battery flexibility certainly presents a significant advantage over the likes of Bosch, which is much more limited with its battery options. Good thing with Shimano is warranty,at least here in Madrid is almost instantaneous. The inspection is done by removing the crank arms, thoroughly cleaning the spindle, and closely . Overall very pleased with the bike and the motor. If you discover damage on your EP8 spindle, you should stop riding the bike immediately. Hey Ralf Hauser!! Still, given the lengths that bike and drivetrain manufacturers have gone to stealthify mountain bikes over the past few years, we found the noisy EP8 motor to be infuriating during the first few rides just as we did with the Bosch Gen 4. Click on a component to learn more. So, when the sensor senses a negative elevation gain, the dynamo kicks in to recharge the battery. So this one article, about this one e-bike, says to you that ALL e-bikes lack refinement and therefore aren't worthy of you gracing them with your holy ass? You can't imagine what kind of thought must have gone behind that response? Only the Levos belt-driven Brose drive unit beats EP8 in terms of motor noise. Sign in to manage your newsletter preferences. I have this motor. This reduced the tendency for the front wheel to lift on really steep tech climbs. Just remember to manually unpair your phone from the bike before you start riding again, as the motor wont engage while the system is paired to the app. Despite the musclier performance, weve had excellent results in terms of range, with the Bosch motor regularly achieving more miles and elevation over EP8. You dont necessarily go further, but you will be riding and climbing faster. 5Nm doesnt sound like much on paper, but on the trail the Levos 2.2 motor is noticeably musclier than Shimano EP8, particularly at the extreme ends of the cadence spectrum. It is the most underrated comment ever on the pinkbike. The svelte motor casing provides more clearance for the rear wheel and suspension components, allowing brands to build their bikes with shorter chainstays. I'm 56 with a long term knee injury. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: The Real Bike Weights from PB Editors. Great for climbing, on the descents the weight changes how I ride, not better or worse. Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! Aim for a cadence between 70-90 RPM for maximum efficiency and response from the motor. When the motor applies torque it pushes in one direction and closes the gap, when there is no torque the ring can rock a little. Make it 100 mile range, and I'm in. But would the noise stop us from recommending an EP8-equipped bike? Along with the fault-free performance weve experienced so far, wed have no hesitation in recommending a bike built around Shimano EP8 this is a high quality and well-rounded e-MTB system. I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. Oh man, so that must mean you know of rigs they've received that they've not done first rides and then field tests on. Plus the prices will drop as the tech becomes cheaper and can be offered at lower prices. Annoying rattle, did anyone say that to Shimano when they first introduced the freewheel? That Shimano response was pure gold. If your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the spur gear. Rattling and lack of update to the battery monitoring is a no go for me, I would just upgrade the battery to the new 620s if i could fit it. Also a big improvement over the prior motor is that the EP8 freewheels easily, so on flats or downhill you can blast away without motor resistance. Our drive units are not tested for use with third party crank arms.. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a 'NORMAL' clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. So why has no one made a motorized gearbox yet? Basically, the battery level drops from around 30% to 2% extremely quickly. The way the 2.2 motor smooths out un-smooth rider input is very impressive, giving it the most natural feel on the trail of any full-power motor weve tested. Let us know what you find out. I'd do way more on a big day. Display integration is still the best on the market, even if it only shows five bars of battery level and could easily integrate some more user-friendly features. It's significantly more muscle, which was much-needed in order for Shimano to keep . A little more overrun from the EP8 motor, and even the option to tune that attribute via the E-Tube app, would be stupendous! A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. So then it gets really confusing as it seems like the first bar lasts 30% and the last one 10%. As mentioned earlier, the Bosch motor does feel punchier than Shimano EP8, with noticeably stronger support at lower cadences. That makes it tricky to work out how much assistance youll be finishing your ride with. Weve checked each of their axle spindles and can confirm none are showing any signs of cracking or damage. Hitting those famous tracks day in, day out for eight years, he broke more bikes than he can remember. I can concur with the range, it's not as good as I expected. Shimano says it provides up to 350-percent support (in Boost mode versus the E8000's 300 percent). The brand suggests EP8 owners should inspect their motors spindles for damage or cracks originating from the drilled hole used for the pedal crank retainer hook, located on the splined portion of the axle. Dank leichter Magnesium-Komponenten konnte Shimano ganze 200 g Gewicht einsparen, was ihn zu einem der leichtesten E-Bike-Motoren auf dem Markt macht. Shimanos answers to our questions are published below verbatim. TSB 156 addresses a reported issue where the crank preload end cap can loosen and fall off, eventually causing the pedal cranks to become detached from the bottom-bracket spindle. This means that if you ride in the default Trail and Boost settings, youll actually end up with a similar total range as the old E8000 motor, albeit with the benefit of more power and assistance throughout the ride. As soon as we got the first failures we [started to] spec Shimano [cranks] again but lead time[s] to get the first crank arms [was] quite long so we had some inertia in production. Did some rides on a scott e-genius 920(2020) and my biggest one I did was a 115 km with 2000 meters of ascent ,19 km average speed,all in the eco mode and riding some rocky terrain with some tarmac ,fire roads ,very mixed terrain ,and I did got impressed with the power and the range ,didnt got me so tired on the legs its most a cardio ,but dont put more power on them and no more battery capacity,cause it wil make them almost a dirt bike :-((. Already have an account with us? The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Knee injury people know you 're not running some old E8000 or E7000 motor spindle on. Day out for eight years, he broke more bikes than he can remember ride with svelte casing. Unit spindle breakages on our DU-EP800 drive unit really steep tech climbs that makes it tricky work... Zu einem der leichtesten E-Bike-Motoren auf dem Markt macht occur when some non-Shimano cranks the... 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