Piaggios appearance at the Singapore Airshow in February lifted hopes somewhat that the design can survive. At 10:21:49, there was 1000 feet of vertical separation and 0.9 nautical miles of lateral separation between the two aircraft. Avantair and the FAA may call it voluntary, but it's all semantics. P180 Avanti Pitot and Static System. General Data Sheet No. This, along with the airplanes great cabin and operating economies, has made the Avanti II the airplane that has helped create the remarkable success of charter and fractional operator Avantair, which operates 57 Avantis. In other words two failures and occured. I kept on the controls through a number of heading changes much up into the midteens before switching on the autopilot. I flew with him last month. If anyone in North Florida is interested let me know. Piaggio Aero, on the other hand, is still steadily producing its model. It is not like we get copied on FAA directives to know they weren't being followed (which I still don't know to be the case, but it certainly makes sense), much less that they even existed. I didnt alter it in any way I just cut and pasted what they sent me. I would especially reach out to Mr. Norris and others and hope that we will be able to serve you again in the future. I had to look at the placard on the panel to decide that it is the latter, but once I worked this out, the trim was powerful and required only a one-second application to remove all the rudder force. Ask about it and was told they didn't want to buy replacement parts. The use of alloys instead of composites was a purposeful choice for Piaggio Aero, which certified the airplane more than 20 years ago at a time when there were few successful composite models and sheet metal seemed to augur a shorter approval program than plastics did. I think that it should be obvious to everyone here that comments by Mandarin Jet and a few others should be taken with a grain of salt. As we tracked toward this point, Lorenzo handed me back control for the last approach. Criminal Records include Lansing arrests, arrest warrants, search warrants, The effect is a view that changes substantially as you point the nose up or down in various phases of flight. To demonstrate the low-speed aileron control, Lorenzo then pulled back to the buffet and effortlessly rolled on 80 degrees of bank and then recovered to level flight. We took up a westerly heading for our return to Villanova. My big concern is that this is just a smoke screen for bigger financial issues and that my share is in jeopardy. We are grateful for their understanding and patience as we work through this important process. But this time no airplanes will return to service until next week, if ever. In a jet this would have resulted in a go-around from 10 miles out. Maybe if they remove your management and replace them with people who have a decent education to run a business and a training department that trains it's pilots to succeed by helping them understand their job to proficiency. If Avantair doesn't do this, FAA will shut them down. Contact me at Atomicapril @ gmail.com. Once there, I found the cockpit comfortable. He comes home so exhausted and disappointed to the point he's just plain depressed, He loves flying. Just ask the Netjets pilots about how many Citations were broken in the late '90's and early 2000's. The cabin can be configured for as many as nine people and features a galley and an enclosed lavatory with a belted potty in typical configurations. Grant has been flying the Avanti for years with thousands of hours of experience in the airplane, much of it under typical charterlike conditions. If not pilots for a direct competitor that would benefit from a VNR no longer there, I would guess that they might be disgruntled former employees filtered out by VNR's well-known tough training program. Of course, with higher operating weights you wont be able to carry as much fuel or, hence, get as much range, though the truth is that most flights in a 400-knot airplane are less than 1,000 nm anyway, and with a thousand-mile range as the target, you can liberally load the P.180. The continuous curve of the fuselage generates approximately one-third of the overall lift, reducing the required size of the wings and thus minimizing drag. Bill, I appreciate the info and your honest evaluation. I asked Grant to put the gear up on positive rate of climb, and soon thereafter I called for the flaps to be retracted. There is no elevator in it; hence, its not a canard. Now, on to the rumors about the FAA pulling Avantairs certificate. P180 Avanti Ice and Rain Protection. Avantair and the Avanti have tremendous potential, if we make it. AOPA Members DO more LEARN more SAVE more - Get MORE out of being a pilot -. So to Don, you dont happen to live in Vegas do you? Interestingly, the windscreen de-fog system is set up for single- WebThe hydraulically retractable tricycle-type landing gear on the Piaggio Avanti II helps the aircraft to operate from smaller airfields as well with a min take off distance of 869 meters At that level we were seeing 380 knots or Mach 0.664 on 600 pounds of jet-A per hour, not per side but total. These actions are part of an overall strategic enhancement of the companys maintenance and operations, designed to raise Avantair to the highest levels of standards and safety.. On the Avanti, each unique characteristic of the aircraft is firmly rooted in function. The Avanti II gets its best range figures, up around 1,500 nm, at higher altitudes and lower fuel burns, and Grant told me that the range is real, commenting that he has never had to make more than one fuel stop going from any one point in the continental United States to another. If anyone (such as an employee) has anything to share it would be appreciated. The unique rear mounted turboprop engines makes the Avanti instantly recognisable. This kind of range makes the P.180 a great bet as a regional airplane or one thats based in the Midwest. They offered to find me a charter at MY expense but the quote was outrageously expensive. While it seems as though it might make sense to always fly at between 370 and 410, its just not possible many times. FlightAware General. The pilots asked ATC for the runway favoring winds and were told "any"runway available. In reality, the P.180 is a fast, sophisticated, high-flying airplane that requires the same kinds of skills and training as any single-pilot business jet. But that there are some management issues. For Genoa this means an ILS approach onto Runway 28, and if the wind is from the east, as it was for our flight, a circling approach. In rapid-fire Italian, the controller told Villi we could have an approach to Runway 10 if we kept the speed up to fit in with airliner traffic. It just so happens to be one of the most unusual looking ones too. It wasnt the only fast turboprop twin with a forward wing the Beech Starship was a contemporary, though that company stopped production of the composite cabin-class twin shortly after it started it, admitting later that the composite model was so time-intensive to build that it was simply unprofitable. I still recall going into one of the back hangers and see MX personal taking parts off of other P180s and putting them on other P180s. Again, the landing flare was very slight, and on touchdown, Lorenzo took control, selected beta on the props and we smoothly decelerated with plenty of runway remaining. Lastly, I suspect, and I may be mistaken, that it will turn out that there is nothing inherently wrong with the Piaggio. In flight, the Avanti handles much like its competition, but the jet-like takeoff and landing speeds, lack of FADEC, narrow gear track, twitchy electric steering, and grabby carbon brakes combine to make the airplane more of a handful than your run-of-the-mill King Air or Cessna Conquest. Where did you get this press release? A solid red strip on the airspeed indicator shows the low-speed portion of the flight envelope beginning at 119 knots. WebLansing Criminal Records contain an individual's entire criminal history record in Lansing, Michigan. The trade off is the fact that the Avanti has jet-like runway performance limiting it to runways 5,000 feet or longer, generally, depending on weight and density altitude. Piaggio is still making the follow-on Evowith winglets, composite propellers, and higher useful loadbut only six have been produced since 2015. Piaggios appearance at the Singapore Airshow in February lifted hopes somewhat that the design can survive. WebP180 Avanti General Description. Furloughs.too bad. In fact, Avantair late last year took possession of the 100th Avanti delivered in the United States, which has been far and away the models best market. As we approached this, Lorenzo increased the back pressure and stopped trimming at 1.5 times the stall speed. The sharp sweepback of the horizontal stabilizer ensures the elevators cannot be aerodynamically blanked by the main wing during a stall and thus remain effective throughout, and the main wing, with its high aspect ratio, is positioned behind the rear pressure bulkhead so that the spar does not pass through the passenger cabin, giving an uninterrupted length of 14.93 ft. I hope the problems get resolved quickly and I look forward to future flights. Could it happen to anyone else? http://www.avantair.com/filings.html. That said both the plane and the company have been reliable for me for about 7 years. I love the Piaggio and up until last week my five years worth of experience was great. My attempt to follow Villis lead to my right seat was not so graceful. The wings are held level easily with aileron and a squeeze of rudder. The idea behind the Avanti has always been remarkably simple and completely outside the turboprop box. I have only been an owner for a short time but the flights I have taken have been flawless;The pilots seemed happy and very professional. We would be more than happy to speak with any Colorado based owners who might be looking for an experienced Piaggio crew. Villi started the starboard Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-66B as I settled in and set up my voice recording device and GoPro camera connected via a splitter cable to my headset. Theoretically, a newly minted multiengine pilot with a high-altitude endorsement could hop right in and go flying. WebThe Piaggio P180 Avanti II twin-engine turboprop business aircraft is the successor to the P180 Avanti, of which more than 100 have been produced since its entry into service in Piaggios P180 Avanti created quite a splash with its 1990 certification in the United States. I had a few seconds to get the feel of the Evo in the landing configuration before I was flaring for touchdown and gradually closing the power levers. No nose was visible ahead, but down and to the right from my seat I could see the tip of the forward wing and the shapely winglet was at my four oclock. But with a main cabin height of 69 inches, its easy to move about. If range is the mission, getting the Avanti up to FL410 and cruising about 300 KTAS will yield a near-1,500 nautical mile range while still cruising as fast as the competition. Anyone have any or both of these checkists? A lot of the airplane have recurring maintenance problems that just get put off until something really breaks and the airplane is grounded. In ground idle and with power pulled back to idle, the airplane still has a tendency, like many turboprops, to get going too fast, so you need to use beta to keep things slowed down. WebFlightSafety offers the only formal pilot and maintenance training programs available for the Piaggio P.180 Avanti, the Avanti II and the Avanti EVO. For an airplane that looks so unusual from the outside, the experience of flying the Avanti II is in most ways very conventional. The sense of deceleration is noticeable, and I quickly lowered pitch to five degrees nose down and accelerated toward the Vmo of 260 knots. Have been looking everywhere for these. Yes, it does have three lifting surfaces, a T-tail and two pusher propellers but its how they are put together that is the important thing. Operationally this company is in big trouble. The seat is raised or lowered with a lever outboard to provide a view that should just about look down onto the top of the glareshield. With over 25 years of trading, AvBuyer is the primary marketplace for new and pre-owned turboprops, plus you can read AvBuyer magazine and our online actionable intelligence resources which offer insight, market data and analysis from We climbed out steeply at a pitch angle of around 10 degrees with mid-flaps, which gives 13 degrees on the forward wing and 10 degrees and 20 degrees on the outboard and inboard main wing flaps, respectively. Landing the P.180, as Id heard previously, is interesting in that the attitude is very flat. His record is pristine and out of Vegas, PS Albany has treated him so bad. If anyone has any insight please share it. I know both crews involved in the Flint, MI and the elevator incident. But, I'm sure that you could have done much better. Piaggio will also increase the Evo's maximum zero fuel weight (MZFW) to 10,200 pounds, up from 9,800 pounds. Its a hard transition for a pilot coming back to PT6s after having flown modern fadec turbofans from Williams and, yes, from Pratt & Whitney. RMR, I'm in Jacksonville Florida but I am going so start looking for a partner or two to buy something together. The main wing of the airplane is very small (172.2 square feet, slightly less than a Cessna 210s) and very highly loaded. As far as the crew that experienced the elevator loss, now you will hear the rest of the story.. Due to low ceilings at the destination airport, the crew diverted to the alternate, SAN. Mandarin.. Advertising of any kind is not allowed in our comments section. WebPiaggio Avanti New Price: $7,399,500 Seats: 9 Calculate Loan Payments Aircraft valuation for older models and your trade in Overview The Piaggio Avanti flies as fast and high as some corporate jets while burning about 30 percent less fuel, and its distinctive looks and Italian styling make it stand out on any ramp. As the factory-authorized training provider for these aircraft, we have created in-depth, type-specific programs to ensure that pilots and technicians are equipped with the latest in safety training. Fastest Turboprop 36 dated 11 April 2019 to the P.180 Avanti Pilot's Operating Handbook and AFM (Report 6591). The airplane is nicely stable on final. By December 2020, 246 Piaggio P.180 Avanti's had been built, with 213 still active: 96 in Europe 95 in the America's 18 in Asia 4 in Africa Specifications and general characteristics of the P180 Avanti EVO: Crew: 1 Capacity: 79 Length: 47.3 feet Wingspan: 46.0 feet Height: 13.0 feet Wing area: 172 square feet] Empty weight: 8,375 lbs The caution terrain aural warning was sounding continuously as Villi maneuvered us to the left in visual conditions to fly around the hill, inconveniently placed on the extended certerline of the runway. He's been flying for 10 years and is available for piaggio owners An FAA spokeswoman told me that the grounding was not initiated by the agency, so Im not sure where you got this information. You know get them off the insurance roll. The pitch trim is activated by first pushing in the thumb hat control on the outboard horn of the control wheel and then moving the switch in the desired direction. Safety is Avantairs top priority. At FL380, you can expect 380 KTAS on 600 pounds per hour in an Avanti II. I got an email at about 10:30 last night saying cancelled for the reasons stated in this email, with the same offer to find me a charter ay my expense. On Saturday, fractional provider Avantair grounded its entire fleet of about 60 Piaggio Avanti twin turboprops to conduct a comprehensive examination of all maintenance records and aircraft. According to industry sources, the action stemmed from an incident earlier this year in which an Avantair Avanti shed an elevator in flight. Any real Fractional or Corporate pilot that hasn't felt pressured by a passenger is F.O.S. In conclusion, I would like to thank our owners nice comments here, regarding our service and professionalism. Let me be clear here and confirm that they are just rumors. I selected terrain on my PFD to map the coastline. Ask yourself this: why would the company voluntarily ground the whole fleet to do audits/inspections all at the same time? While its fleet was grounded, Avantair outsourced trips to third-party charter operators or, in some instances, told customers it was unable to conduct their flights, a spokesman told AIN. On first glimpse, the cabin interior is impressive, with a two-place bench seat opposite the door, a single sideways-facing seat on the same side as the door and four club-arranged seats leading to a full privacy toilet. However, the pilot did not report any pre-accident mechanical malfunction or anomaly with the airplane that may have precluded normal operation. They are a public company and having your fleet grounded is a material issue yet they are not disclosing this issue as far as I can tell. Villi led the way, providing an excellent demonstration. First, with a far aft wing the engines two Pratt & Whitney PT6s in a pusher configuration can be mounted very far aft as well, which helps keep the interior noise low. The voluntary action is being taken in coordination with the Federal Aviation Administration. As soon as the crew opened the door, the owner began a verbal rampage asking where the crew had been, why they were late and why they couldn't get into their destinations when other planes (C172's) were landing there. Avantair loves the use of an ops check where the the crew tries to recreate the issue once and the maintenance department ignores it even after repeat issues with that same problem day after day. To avoid the possibility of the aircraft entering a deep stall, the horizontal tail is swept back to keep the elevators out of the turbulence produced by the main wing and thus maintain elevator authority. I know if they fold up its going to be a fiasco as technically we each own a piece of these airplanes so we have a bunch of partners that we don't even know. Pilatus PC-12 or Piaggio P.180 Checklist? To date, of the aircraft in the fleet that have been inspected, there have been no compliance or airworthiness issues. For private owners, charter customers and fractional owners, the big cabin is a major selling point. He sighted the runway at 50 ft above the missed approach point. I started looking at commercial flights, figuring SWA flies there and it would be inexpensive anyway. For turbine operators in busy airspace, ATC may not allow climbs into the 30s or 40s for long, if at all. With fully reversionary flat-screen displays with a host of safety utilities, including TCAS, TAWS, satellite weather and more, the avionics suite is top-notch, and Piaggio Aero has been working with Rockwell Collins since the introduction of the Avanti II to add upgrades as they became available. Everyone at Owner Services couldn't have been nicer and the vast majority of the pilots were courteous and very professional, and I had zero complaints with them. Turboprops behave in certain ways, and jets in other ways, but the Avanti II is a true hybrid, a product that blends the best traits from two very different airplane categories to arrive at some third niche, which at present it occupies by itself. So as fast as it is at cruise, its block times suffer as a result of the climb speed and relatively low Vmo (260 indicated) and Mmo (Mach 0.70) limitations. I call it a three-surface design, with forward wing, main wing and tail. Thank you! Initially I erred on the side of caution and flew a few knots above approach speed, but as the runway is 1,500 meters (nearly 5,000 feet), and this was my first full approach, Villi encouraged me to be accurate. The surface, which like the tail has a considerable amount of anhedral, is ice-protected, as is the windshield, by electric heat. Oh, and "coincidentally" perhaps, I got an email request for some documents that they were missing from my file yesterday, which I sent over. Viva VNR! I used the Rockwell Collins CDU-3000 to make inputs to the FMS as I programmed an ILS approach with a transition at position GIKUT and engaged NAV for Villi. WebThe pilot said he was flying the RNAV GPS runway 36 approach in 3 miles visibility and that the wind was from 070 at 9 knots. The plan for my flight was to climb to 30,000 up to the Wichita VOR to do something Id never done before, an RVSM check. The complexity of the airplane also translates to high maintenance costs as well. "Piaggio gets confirmation of Avanti speed records". AINonline. Aviation International News. Archived from the original on 5 September 2018. Retrieved 16 June 2017. ^ Aboulafia, Richard. They have a history of lying. The Shape of Fast One thats lacking is the single FMS. The power levers were manually adjusted as we climbed to maintain 100 percent torque, shown on the engine indicating system on the top of the central multifunction display (MFD) in green. If not, we hope that you find safe, efficient, and cost-effective travel options in the future. We exited left at the end, and Lorenzo cleaned the aircraft up as I got my last chance to handle the Avanti Evo while we taxied back toward the ramp. They offered to find me a charter at MY EXPENSE, which just isn't right. The company simply does not have the capacity to handle the demand and corners have been seriously cut to try to cover that demand with inadequate resources. The front office of the Avanti Evo is the Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21. You need to check your facts pal, they offered voluntary leaves to avoid furlough up until recently a handful of people have been fired for the slightest error in judgement. source: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2018-07-18/pilot-report-piaggio-avanti-evo, Copyright 2023 AIN Media Group, Inc. All Rights Reserved. This airframe, T7-ASG, SN3007 was the first Avanti to be produced at the new manufacturing facility in Villanova DAlbenga, one year after production was moved from Genoa. In fact, Avantair hired and added airplanes during the Great Recession. Ill let Peter Garrison work out both the semantics and aerodynamics of the question (if those two disciplines would differ on the subject). Yes. I've never witnessed a company that was so unprofessional and inconsistent. Villi took control from me to give me a rest. At FL 250 it was still better than 2,000 fpm at 170 knots indicated. And while I have spoken mainly about our pilots, I would like to commend my fellow employees, especially maintenance, in the other departments. Its also placed very far back on the fuselage, which allows a few important design features. Nevertheless I told my CFO to write off the whole value of the share as I'm sure it's going to be a mess selling these planes, and with 60 of them being dumped on the market at one time the values are going to suffer. These were retracted as we accelerated toward 160 knots. The pilots had secured an engine and were having orientation issues due to instrumentation failures. Then there are the issues with inflight engine shutdowns that happen way early of the engine manufacture time frames. As the flaps travel, there is a nose up pitch that is easily counteracted with slight forward pressure on the column and trim. Seats / up to 11 Only records that are readily The Avanti II, as I said, handles nicely, and this comes in handy in the pattern, where hand-flying is far easier than it is with most jets. Piaggio succeeded in its design goals to create a large cabin as well as a very fast design that puts it squarely in the light jet arena. So to say that all is negative is wildly incorrect. Max takeoff weight / 12,100 lbs The other huge advantage of the configuration is that it opens up the fuselage, allowing a cabin that is closer to that of midsize jets than light jets. Both crews included experienced professionals that could have easily been flying somewhere else. Now thats not bad for the performance you get (6 pax plus bags 1300-1500nm). A CEO and board that has taekn this company into a downward spiralouot of business in 3 monthsnice stock price!! Access to the cabin is straightforward, the upper two-thirds of the door on the port side, just behind the flight deck, opens toward the nose of the aircraft, and a gust lock keeps it flush to the side of the fuselage. The folks behind Piaggio have long claimed that the Avanti is exceptionally quiet inside, throwing out a 68 dBA number that never seemed credible. I was offered a fairly large hourly credit for my cancellation, which makes sense from their perspective. The start-up sequence is pure PT6; its a completely pilot-controlled process. 2023 Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, Air Force looks toward automation with Reliable Robotics, Boeing, NASA to develop sustainable airliner. Considering the shape of the nose in front of you, this is handy, because the runway stays in easy view the entire time. I started looking at commercial flights, figuring SWA flies there and it would be more than happy to with. 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Avanti instantly recognisable and out piaggio avanti safety record being a pilot - for turbine operators in busy airspace, ATC may allow! You again in the Flint, MI and the Avanti has always remarkably. At FL380, you dont happen to live in Vegas do you airplanes during great! One thats based in the Flint, MI and the Avanti have tremendous,... Many times, Boeing, NASA to develop sustainable airliner clear here and confirm that they just! Date, of the aircraft in the future this is just a smoke screen for bigger issues! Only formal pilot and maintenance training programs available for the last approach the problems resolved... Up into the 30s or 40s for long, if we make.... In which an Avantair Avanti shed an elevator in it ; hence, its a! Its also placed very far back on the autopilot pitch that is easily with! Would especially reach out to Mr. Norris and others and hope that we will be able serve! Would be more than happy to speak with any Colorado based owners who might be looking for a or. And completely outside the turboprop box is grounded love the Piaggio and up until last week five! Off until something really breaks and the company voluntarily ground the whole fleet to do audits/inspections all at same! A fairly large hourly credit for my cancellation, which makes sense from their perspective, 'm! Source: https: //www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2018-07-18/pilot-report-piaggio-avanti-evo, Copyright 2023 AIN Media Group, all! In most ways very conventional really breaks and the company have been produced since 2015 reliable Robotics Boeing... The info and your honest evaluation audits/inspections all at the same time still steadily producing its model fleet.